Will and I were asked to interview each other for a book in 2008. As of yet, this book hasn't materialized, so here is the unpublished interview. Conducted January 2008 via Gmail chat.
me: hey
will: So what should we talk about?
me: everything!
the tape is rolling
as of
right now
will: So I want you to tell me about your troubled teenage life! Zines Raves Indie rock!
me: hahaha
it wasn't very troubled at all
just ... "adventurous"
should we just get into it?
will: yes!
me: or maybe we should introduce and state what we're doing right now?
will: ok that is official!
who are you?
me: oh! i expected to start interviewing you!
but you've already got the light on me ...
ok, name: jaime sin
i currently promote a party called seventh heaven (with you), i try to dj, and i design jewelry
your turn
will: I feel you left a couple events out of that? Shack Up?
Ok my name is will munro
I have thrown many events including
Vaseline, Peroxide, Moustache, NoT.O. to name some
I am a Toronto artist, promoter, I run a business called the Beaver, diner and bar. I also do alot of outreach in the queer scene.
me: awesome
there are so many things we can talk about
will: Tell me about your first experiences
me: ok
i've always been obsessed with music
ever since i was a kid i would listen to radio obsessively and tape every song i liked off the radio
fast forward a few years and i would say the things that shaped my world, as i see it now would be ...
sonic youth and house music
so this would be the late 80's to early 90's
this was when city limits was on late at night and as a kid i would be fascinated by i guess what was then known as 'alternative rock' and cfny played house music late nights ... remember that?
i remember listening to the radio on my parents stereo and being really embarrassed by 'french kiss'
will: I agree I listened to Deadly Headly on CFNY late night
I always wanted to know what that weird world was as a child!
me: yeah same!
will: I also had an inclination to most things alternative
me: and i still kinda feel the same way ... i wanna know what that weird world is!
will: I started going to concerts at a young age!
My brother gave me music he didn't like
the tapes changed my life!
The Smiths strangeways and the Cure Kiss Me Kiss Me
me: man i really wish i still had some of the house tapes i had from back then ...
house music was huge in toronto at the time
will: First show I went to on my own was Skinny Puppy "To Dark Park!"
me: how old were you?
will: I got in trouble when I called late asking for a ride from Kipling station!
me: hahha
will: 16?
Grounded for a month!
Then I saw the Cramps!
Life Changing!
me: i think my first show was ... uh
mine was not so cool ... rage against the machine and helmet?
hahaha
i was 14 maybe
will: I like Helmet!
me: i think my second show was luscious jackson and the breeders
actually, maybe i was 15
will: I was alot more of a goth then you!
I was a lonesome teen homo
me: my friends were gothy and industrialy
in high school it didn't matter if you like the exact same things though, especially if you were an outcast anyway
you'd go to the same shows as your friends, just cuz you were curious
will: and they're all ages!
me: yes!
will: How did you find raves?
me: actually from some of the same friends!
we were bored and suburban, and would try anything
this was a little later in high school, i was like 16 maybe
i'm trying to remember the years ... maybe 93 - 94?
but yeah, sometimes i can't believe the places i would go to as a teen
lots of strange parties in abandoned warehouses
i remember one party that was on an abandoned floor of an office high rise ...
will: I first went to a warehouse party when I was in College!
Ben Boles took me!
He was then kinda into rockabilly
and also detroit techno!
I was a ex hardcore kid
also into indie rock
me: yeah, see, it's kinda like that ...
i always grew up listening to all sorts of stuff, and being interested in all sorts of stuff
you know how there is supposedly this style of "eclectic" djing that only just occured in the past 7 years?
that always made sense to me! because that's how i always listened to music!
will: Me also
me: but yeah, when i was in high school it was house, indie rock, hip hop rnb, raves ...
all at the same time
will: When I was in High school
I went through every sub culture
I was a goth, a punk, a new waver, a mod, a rude boy
But mostly I was a skater
then I got into hard core later in high school
me: cute. my first real bf was a skater
he only liked rap though
will: I wish I had a bf that was a skater
I was more of a skate punk
me: ahh
i guess he was sort of a later era skater
i think he had blue hair at one point though
will: First warehouse party I went to (to get back to that) was ritchie hawtin and some plus 8 party in a warehouse north of the city
me: wow, how was that?
will: I went to meet ben there
It was incredible and completely frightening at the same time
there were kids passed out outside the front door
and the warehouse was really well decorated!
Foil walls blacked out rooms lasers
it was very dark.
I liked it
me: ok ... so post high school ... when did you start promoting?
will: I am very wholesome
I graduated from OCAD before I promoted at all
It was after new years millenium
me: uh huh
i went to ryerson
and partied a lot
as fashion students are wont to do
will: I partied thru art school as well
I was bored of house and tech parties by the time I was done though
me: yeah, i think once i reached university i was over raves
they had gotten so huge
and that's when i started discovering even more music and more intimate parties ...
places like the we'ave
area 51
will: what parties were you going to?
me: i was going to alot of a man called warwick and nav's parties ...
tempo
milk
skeme
blowup
will: I was probably going to the barn
I went to some of movements parties
Milk too
But I was greedy
me: yeah, those were really great
i think that whole vibe changed my perspective alot
those smaller parties and music i had no idea about
will: yeah I used to love to party with the Deadly Snakes kids
me: i think that's how i met you
will: I think you're right
I told you "that you were sexy, and a hot dancer"
me: haha
i remember going to vaseline for the first time, lower level at the el mocambo
will: How was that for you?
me: awesome!
me and my friends had the best time
so many cute boys
will: The Snakes got me to do it!
They hooked me up with Dan Burke
me: when did you start vaseline?
will: I was really back into glam rock
January 2000
me: was it a monthly from the start?
will: Every month for 6 years
me: wow
will: Yeah you could say I didn't leave toronto much!
me: so, i guess vaseline was your biggest party, is that fair to say?
will: Yeah it got really big, but it started really small and intimate
it moved to the second floor
me: ok, so tell me about it ...
will: at the Elmo, then when it got bought
it moved to Lee's Palace
me: was vaseline the first party you ever promoted?
will: Yeah I had booked a couple of very small punk shows
but vaseline was a party and the concern was dress up and dancing
Oh yeah it was kinda Queer but not exclusive
me: 6 years ... like, i dunno if this is corny but maybe can you talk about what you took away from it ... how you felt, what you learned, why it's over
its impact on toronto!
will: I still actually want to do it a couple of times a year!
I loved doing it.
I loved booking bands networking with queer performers all over the place
It was really fun environment, felt very free in a conservative toronto
I always had live performers, mostly bands to start
I also had drag hosts like my ex Tawny Le Sabre
me: yeah, i gotta say vaseline was probably the first ... openly mixed (?) party i ever went to
will: Yeah there aren't alot anymore!
We use to have really fun dirty competitions
Dick sucking comps.
me: oh!
will: best gut
me: bobbing for dildos!
will: yes bobbing for all kinds
Fashion make over!
Go Go Dancers
Naked People
Famous performers?
it's kinda blur
maybe I should put some videos on youtube
me: yeah you should!
will: Tonite I was watching some videos of Dean Johnson, and john sex.
Dean Johnson died this fall!
me: i don't know dean johnson
or john sex
will: I'll send you links! They were in Mondo New York
Dean was supposed to perform at vaseline
me: ok wait, so what made you start vaseline?
will: I started Vaseline cause I was bored with toronto night life
I thought nite life was predictable
and also getting really overbearingly heterosexual
me: it's kind of still like that, isn't it?
will: Yes it is back to that!
I had a new boyfriend and we both were into alot of club stuff
My boyfriend was into Larry Levan and Paradise Garage
Early house and late disco
He was supposed to be the DJ but he gave up on that?
I was more into rock and new wave
and I started a club like vaseline cause it hadn't existed in T.o.
since the early 90's and I never experienced any of that
I also wanted to return a bit to my roots, wanted to unite all the separate parts of underground culture in this city
I wanted to unite the freaks! and give them a place to party, and a place to see really cool performers
me: i was actually thinking in the shower today about how daft punk's homework came out in 97, and pretty much blew dance music into the mainstream ... along with chemical brothers, prodigy
10 years ago ...
i mean, i loved daft punk as much as anybody ... but i'm a sucker for intimacy
and things that are still kind of mysterious
things that not everybody likes
will: I agree... but when you throw a good event and you bring a great performer and you look out and see hundreds of people it is a real rush!
me: oh for sure!
hundreds is still pretty small though
i heard justice is supposed to be playing at the docks!
tiesto plays there!
will: They could play a bigger venue at this point
They are the new Led Zeppelin
me: ha! mikey was just saying that yesterday, but he was just talking about their groupies
will: I am sure they have groupie sex!
me: obviously!
look at those sideburns!
fuck!
will: I started doing Peroxide to get smaller again
Also club 56 was amazing
me: peroxide was fun
YES!
56
miss that hole
will: It was like the Pyramid club of toronto!
me: that was a fun era in toronto nightlife
will: Yeah people dressed up!
Danced Mixed
me: people still looked for weird venues
will: people liked weird music
I got to play crazy stuff down in the sewer hole!
me: haha, we sound jaded
will: I am not jaded!
me: maybe i'm a little jaded
will: Maybe...
me: i miss the weird venues
i miss the mystery
will: I just want people to still take some chances with music
me: i miss when not everything was captured on digital camera and it wasn't so easy to find out what someone's name was
we should do a mystery party
will: True that!
me: you know what place i miss?
will: The internet wasn't a tool when I started out
me: yeah you just had to go on word of mouth and interesting flyers
will: I miss making incredible flyers
Floppy discs? Drug Baggies with micro chips!
me: yes!
i still have those
will: Spray Painted vague posters
me: ok, we have to do a mystery party this year
will: That really is what got my parties packed
me: a non internet mystery party
will: where you have to call a number to find out where it is?
me: maybe!
will: Daniel Vila was doing great concerts in abandoned places this summer
I went to most
me: yeah we went to one last year
will: cause it was exciting again!
went to the lighthouse end of Leslie Spit!
me: i crawled under a fence in peter max short shorts
and you held my hand in the dark
will: warehouse up near Sinclair, saw final fantasy play, gave him a ride home
me: do you remember a place called the iron fist?
will: where was that?
me: i think that's what it was called ... right at college and bathurst
there were 2 rooms
one was a ballroom with a wood floor
will: This sounds new to me?
me: and the other had all these booths, and oriental rugs and palm trees
i only went once ... and the promoter had put out fresh cut fruit
will: Sounds like stones place minus the rugs
me: it was small
will: I like when there is food or fruit for people!
Maybe it is cause I don't...
me: yeah, that place was like a dream
i never heard of another party there!
will: Why did you start an event
a weekly at that?
me: oh, i had just moved from the annex to the king and bathurst area
and i used to go to the cloak and dagger regularly
mikey used to play there, as did alot of other cool people
it was teensy and so fun!
and i wanted that in my new neighborhood!
will: Queenshead is similar
me: i just wanted a regular old weekly drinking hole with interesting music
but, it turned into so much more than that
our ambitions weren't very high!
i thought the queenshead was too big initially
but they had gear and it was walking distance from me and mikey's place
will: yeah you had some big dj's
me: pretty simple beginnings
will: I was proud of both of you!
me: haha
will: I used to go alot
Liked it much
me: yeah, i remember you'd come and knit
will: I was knitting?
me: yeah!
will: Not suprised
used to dance as well
me: yeah, it got really crazy
will: I loved that it was kind of a meat market
me: haha
apparently!
so yeah, we started that summer 04
will: I felt comfortable in it! But wasn't any one for me to pick up
which was good
me: haha
i'm sure those bathrooms saw alot of action
will: As do most washrooms in any interesting place
me: hehe
will: How did doing shack up change your event throwing?
me: well, it definitely opened my eyes to the possibilities ... i never thought it would turn into what it did.
i remember the first time me and mikey made over $20 he told me not to get used to it but it grew and grew
never thought i'd try to dj in any other capacity than playing some songs i liked for some friends
never thought i'd be able to book any of the producers who's music i love
will: But that is half the fun
me: for sure
it was unexpected
will: Those producers and performers want to meet good people as well
me: we didnt try very hard
yeah, it's true
will: you guys were doing the right thing, right place right time
Alot of stuff came out of there
Crystal Castles? MSTRKRFT?
me: i can't take the credit for that! they were early patrons of the night.
we didn't know them when we started it, but they wanted to come out and play
but yeah ... in the early 2000's i had been listening to alot of tigersushi radio
and hearing alot of the european stuff that wasn't really getting attention here
will: they had a radio show?
me: yeah, on their old site
will: you're up on that stuff
me: i learned so much from just sitting there and listening
and following the links
and listening to snippets in online record stores in the uk
will: I read alot of books, articles
me: that stuff wasn't getting played here yet
will: like what?
me: all that post electroclash european stuff that i guess turned into "indie dance" which the dregs of is now "blog house" ... it wasn't all so samey back then
and that less serious, less cold vibe in dance music was still undefined
... that coupled with with art rock and weird old dancey stuff was what shack up was all about
will: blog beats?
me: yeah, it's known as blog house now
will: you were the first person I ever heard play MIA
me: kevin hegge was playing her in rotate, i think i walked in when they had just gotten her first 12" in
and i thought it sounded really fresh
will: I can't wait till he starts booking stuff he is into
me: rory mustve been playing mia, no?
will: Yeah Rory was an early blog music person
also first with a blog that I ever looked at
me: i sort of started blogging again
will: Jiff lived with him, who supplies rory with alot of stuff, but that whole scene was real new to me
I know I am excited by this step!
me: i can't justify giving music away though
i'm just trying to point people in the right direction ethically now
will: I still buy music!
Always will
I am trying to get a website up again
I am going to use blog software
me: i mostly buy old stuff
i have a hard time justifying spending $15 on a 12" unless it's incredible and i NEED to have it
will: Fair enough!
When you are getting alot of money to dj
it doesn't hurt so bad!
but lately I don't get much to spin
me: well, i also do my best to book and promote producers and dj's i admire
i'm supporting them in a way that makes sense to me!
will: It is possible to do that and make money! That isn't wrong it is hard work!
me: yeah, things are changing a lot
you have to roll with the punches
will: Yeah things are getting cheaper and faster, not all of it am I a fan of
me: no, but i think it's important to adapt in a way you are comfortable with
will: I am suprised to say I will be getting a laptop soon
for djing
me: really now!
will: I need more Dj work
me: i don't know if i'm comfortable with that yet
for myself
will: it is less heavy! I will still buy records though.
me: i don't know that records will still be getting made
will: I think they will be! It will be great for going out of town, records are heavy!
me: i heard of so many shops and distro shutting down last year
and pressing plants
will: That is a shame and a disaster
But also it leaves room for people like you and me to do what it is we do!
me: maybe this is a good segway to talk about Seventh Heaven!
will: I think it is interesting that cosmic disco is getting played and talked about again
me: yes
but part of me also thinks that it's just a tagline, or a feeling in the air
will: Sort of? It's disco either way?
me: i wouldn't say that Seventh Heaven is really cosmic disco
will: disco
me: remember our first poster?
will: the one you designed
me: disco/ italo/ postdisco/ protohouse/ house/ edits/ neu disco/ weirdo disco ...
cosmic i think is really specific
will: I am just being lazy!
me: i have a hard time applying cosmic to anything other than Baldelli
will: That poster was very Hercules and Love Affair
Goddess disco
me: ha!
yeah
so let's talk about Seventh Heaven, why we started it etc
will: I feel you had it in your blood
me: I DO!
i like that you can sense that about me
will: I can smell it
me: oh dear
will: It smells good!
why did you start?
me: because you asked me to!
will: I thought you asked me! Christ I must be getting old!
me: haha
ok ok
as i was saying
i used to listen to alot of tigersushi radio
and along with the new european stuff, they'd play alot of old european stuff
and i'd always loved alot of the old funk and disco breaks and samples in hip hop and house ...
will: I wanted to play sexy happy fun and strange dance music!
me: i agree!
will: I had heard what you were spinning and I felt I had a similar vision of what dance set should be like
me: yeah, there was a less "meat market" vibe to that music
it was more sexy and sensual and not so in your face
will: Yeah, it is more of a personal beauty. We are maturing
me: and it's more danceable! not so fist pumping!
will: Yes it is for people who like to dance! Not just head bangers
me: and again, we started out super small ... and it's going in a direction i didn't think it would!
i didn't think we'd be getting such big names out
will: Well some friends of yours have good connections? I am happy bringing good dj's and performers
me: actually ... i guess they're more sort of cult heroes aren't they
will: Yeah people still don't really know who they are?
But they will
me: yeah
i like cult heroes though
will: I love unsung heroes
I like to celebrate music
me: yeah, and it's great when it's personal
when someone can give off their own special vibe
so clearly
will: I think more dance parties should be some sort of celebration
me: i agree
will: I think we should leave it at that!
me: i have a good feeling about 2008
:)
will: Moi aussi.